"LJ909" (lj909)
01/02/2018 at 11:12 • Filed to: None
2
25|
"LJ909" (lj909)
01/02/2018 at 11:12 • Filed to: None | 2
| 25 |
This is my sisters 2017 Camaro RS convertible she got earlier this year. Shes in the Navy and bought this as a going away present for herself before she shipped out earlier this year. I told her not to get it because its just going to be sitting but apparently she lets my mom use it here and there. But Like I said in the title, it has flaws. Annoying ones that would bug me living with it on a daily basis. But lets start with the good things.
Hits
The Alpha Platform itself: Chevy engineers really did a good job with the handling and sportiness if the chassis. The Camaro is the best driving of the pony cars and even in this V6 version it’s more sports car like than either the Mustang or the Challenger.
It looks great: The redesign the Camaro saw for 2016 modernized its retro design that has been around since its debut back in ‘09. It looks great. The RS package adds unique 20’ wheels, additional LED running lights up front along with with RS specific grills and badges front and rear.
She needs to get her engine steam cleaned from all the AZ dust
The V6/8 speed auto combo is damn good: GM’s 3.6 high feature V6 is used in everything from Cadillac’s to Buick’s and its good, especially in the Camaro. In this application, it puts out 335 horses and 284 ft/lbs of torque. It even seems to be better on gas than my Ecoboost. Under cruising conditions, its switches to V4 mode to save gas, and it helps. My sis just drove to Arizona a few weeks ago and averaged over 35 mpg. Under full throttle in those instances you need it, especially in sport mode, power delivery is smooth with the 8 speed shifting fast. The exhaust even emits a pop and good snarl in tunnels too.
The ability to switch drive modes on the fly: In all Camaro’s outside of the SS, Z/28 and ZL1 trims, there is a mode selector behind the gearshift that lets you select from 3 drive modes: Touring which is normal driving and throttle, Sport which is a more aggressive throttle, better steering and seems to open up the exhaust, and Snow/Ice, which honestly being in SoCal it never gets used. The V8 models get a Track mode in addition to the other 3. The ability to switch is easier to do than in my Mustang and its great for those instances when you need to leave those annoying people that try to race you because they see you in a Camaro.
Misses
The Mirrors/Visors are dumb: chalk it up to this being a convertible maybe, but the visors in this car border on pointlessness. Not only do they not detach for those times where the sun is coming through the door window, but they are offset as shown in this pic:
I’m sitting directly behind the wheel, yet you cant see me in the mirror. To look in the mirror you have to lean right, and vice versa if you’re a passenger. On top of that, even if they are simply down, the spacing between where they are attached to the frame is wide enough to let sun through still.
The top system itself: Its slower than a Mustangs. Whereas I can quickly lower my top at a stop light, the Camaro would require you to pull off on the side of the road. And it opens in 3 parts vs the Mustang’s one smooth lowering: first the rear window area lifts, then the rear tonneau raises skyward, then then top folds down, then the tonneau closes and that’s that. The one thing it does have over the Mustang top wise is the fact that you can lower the top in the Camaro while moving up to 31 mph. The Mustang you have to pretty much stop the car or the top will pause however its positioned. The most annoying part about the top though? The top wont lower unless this flimsy cargo area “cover” is snapped into place. If it isn’t you’ll get a message in the dash saying “secure cover” . Annoying as hell.
The 20’ wheels: They look great, but let me say this now: 20 in wheels combined with low profile run flat tires don’t make for a great ride. Speed bumps feel like potholes and driving over streets with a lot of cracks will make the tires sound as if they are on a flat.
An audio system power button that had to have been a design oversight: You can’t just simply press the power button to turn the radio off in this car. Nope, engineers decided that’s too easy. A simple press of the power button will do nothing but mute the audio.
You have to long press the power button for at least 5 seconds to turn the radio off.
Rear legroom/headroom is nearly nonexistent: To the point of making you wonder why the Camaro has 4 seats at all. No one but children can fit back there and 4 people can fit but it’s a hell of a pinch. With the top up it’s even worse. We went out to eat for my birthday and I rode in the back with the top up, and not even being in the car 15 minutes I began to get a crick in my neck. Even for children its terrible. My son, who’s 6, has to sit either Indian style or on his feet to fit. And if you attempt to move the front seat up to make room for anyone in the rear, front legroom gets dangerously tight in the footwells.
And the most glaring, unacceptable miss of them all?!: Look at this.
This is still pretty much a new car. There is just over 17 thousand miles on it from 10 months of driving , and the fucking rear window is coming off from the top in 3 different places. Over half of the left side, and on both the top and bottom half on the right.
Seriously GM wtf. My sis is going to take it to the dealer this week to see if this can be fixed under warranty.
But there you have it folks. The Camaro is arguably the sportiest of the 3 pony cars, but its misses, while trivial to some, bug me too much to ever really consider buying one. Worse still the fact that its not even a year old and the rear window is coming off and the fact that interior wise its so tight it borders on impractical make it a no go for me (ok I might make an exception for the V8 models but still). But damn does it sound better than my Mustang while seeming faster
bob and john
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 11:38 |
|
the radio thing doesnt bug me at all. i actually like that.
our old a3 had it. its great when you just need to pause it to chat with someone or something
|
LJ909
> bob and john
01/02/2018 at 11:43 |
|
I found it annoying because I’m used to cars having a separate button on the wheel for muting. Usually its a button that’s combined with the Bluetooth phone controls for answering or hanging up.
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 11:45 |
|
Points of order:
* The visors. This is due to the fact that this is a convertible. The coupe has regular visors.
* Hold power to turn the radio off. This is likely a UX thing from GM, since muting sound is likely what you want when you have an SS with your phone plugged in and a map on the screen, or have a 2SS/ZL1 with navigation. It’s still dumb on the lower tier radios.
* [ The V6/8 speed auto combo is damn good ]. If the V6 and auto is good, the V8 and 6 speed manual is even better.
* Rear seat room. It’s. A. Camaro. What the heck did you expect? Even the Mustang isn’t great on rear seat room, and the Challenger is a two door sedan (which isn’t the same thing as a two door coupe, and is the only reason people can get in the back of a Challenger). In fact, the droptop Camaro is even worse for rear seat room, since the top mechanisms have to go somewhere.
* Rear window. GM Quality right there. I had an issue with my brand freaking new Camaro SS where the damn BCM wouldn’t lock the doors. It’s working now with the module reset, but still... 6000 miles and the doors won’t lock.
* Ride quality and the chassis. Get the coupe and magneride, and it’s much better on both counts.
average user
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 11:46 |
|
I havent seen an independent “mute” button on any cars i have driven (mostly Germans) since god knows when. Just one button, poke it and it would shut up.
|
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> bob and john
01/02/2018 at 11:47 |
|
I like it when I need the talking heads on the intermission report to shut up while still being able to see the map on the screen.
|
average user
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 11:50 |
|
A friend actually has one of these. V6, non-RS. How do you guys see out of these cars? The design looks great and honestly i wont say no to one but the windows are narrower than the gun slits from a WW2 bunker.
Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 11:51 |
|
Ive rented three of the new gen camaros like this. One a convertible and two the hardtop coupes. The convertible one was the first one I rented and I agree with your sentiments about it being a pretty good car. Even though it weighs like 5000 pounds, it actually handles turns REALLY well. I took it on Mullholland Highway, Yerba Buena road, Angeles Crest Highway, and Hwy 39 out in Ojai. This boat stuck to the road way better than I expected, the paddle shifters actually let you hold redline and give quick enough downshifts, and the exhaust sounds damn good for a V6.
But yeah I agree that putting the top up and down is a major pain. I started just leaving it down all the time because rental and Socal. It is especially painful compared to my Miata where even with a racing seat and roll bar to complicate matters, is such a simple process. I definitely had so much pain with that trunk partition crap too but I have found it worse in the BMW Z4 that I drove since it was more sensitive to how that stupid thing was latched. In general I hate convertibles that sacrifice trunk space for the top but for a rental its whatever.
My ideal Camaro would be a SS with a V8 and a stick. Then with some sticky tires and straight pipes, I would probably love that car to death. I am not a fan of big heavy American muscle but those rentals turned me onto the idea at least a little. Interiors are quite nice and they make for solid highway cruisers. And I also noticed superb gas mileage even leaving it in sport mode and beating the shit out of it, I got mid-high 20s the whole time still. Both my STi and Miata will easily be sub 20mpg under the same conditions.
|
LJ909
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
01/02/2018 at 11:51 |
|
Visors: figured as much. But so many newer cars I have encountered have visors that are annoyingly useless.
The radio I found weird because like I mentioend to someone else, other cars have buttons on the wheel to mute for the audio, even my Sonic has both a button on the wheel and a seberate mute button on the radio (other than the power button) for this.
I’ve only driven an SS auto and it was incredibly fast. Like it was a different kind of fast.
Yea I know its a Camaro but still, there’s such a lack of room to the point where it should just be a 2 seater. My Mustang feels way bigger for some reason even though I know its not that much bigger. But its still horrible nonetheless.
Stuff like your doors and this window are just plain unacceptable and make me weary of how things will hold up at 50 or 100 thousand miles.
Does the Magnaride make the ride better even with 20 in wheels?
|
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> average user
01/02/2018 at 11:52 |
|
Easily. We use our eyeballs, and set our exterior mirrors properly, duh. :)
If you have ever driven a box truck, you can drive a Camaro.
|
LJ909
> average user
01/02/2018 at 11:52 |
|
Even my Sonic has 2: one on the wheel that doubles for hanging up the phone and a separate button on the radio itself thats just for audio muting.
|
LJ909
> average user
01/02/2018 at 11:55 |
|
Yea how small the window openings are is really put in perspective when you are in it. You get down into the car, and the door sills are so high that if you have the seat in its lowest position, like how I drive and you want to hang your arm out the window, you actually really cant and your shoulder will start burning because of how high it is. Its like sitting in one of those old school bath tubs. But rear visibility with the top up is damn near non existent where the C pillars would be if this were a coupe. I think its why the rear camera has such a wide angle. but of course visibility improves with the top down.
|
average user
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
01/02/2018 at 11:57 |
|
I learn how to drive in an era without cameras. Just me and three mirrors and my thick thick glasses. But its impossible to see out the back in parking situations.
|
LJ909
> Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
01/02/2018 at 12:00 |
|
Yea Ive taken this thing on some twisties too and that Alpha platform really shines. It makes the Challenger seem like the boat it is and the Mustang more of a GT. I was really impressed with how the paddles let you hold lat redline. Some cars those paddle shifters are just for show but they actually work here. Combine that with that exhaust and you can actually turn some heads passing by at full throttle.
The top though is probably one of the worst I have dealt with. But living in SoCal as well I would have the top down anyway. I don’t think my sis puts it down that much because shes the type of person that would forget to put the partition up and get annoyed when she didn’t and then just not even bother with it.
I would love an SS with some loud ass exhaust. And as the years are going on they have been coming down in price used but I have never seen one lower than about 26 grand.
|
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 12:03 |
|
My SS has 20 inch wheels and Magneride. Much, much better. If you have AAA already, you could even ditch the runflats that are on the non-high-performance models (Basically, anything that isn’t a ZL1 or an SS 1LE) and that will help tremendously as well.
I pointed out to the dealer service desk that it wouldn’t be that big of a deal had GM *put a freaking door lock knob* on the door card. The 6th Gen Camaro doesn’t have one. Then it would just be an unacceptable inconvenience, rather than an unacceptable trip to the dealer to have the module reset immediately.
I look at the Camaro and Mustang as 2+2s, rather than a 4 seater. You’d be crazy to put anyone in the back of either of those cars for longer than about 5 seconds.
The seats in the Camaro are there for a simple reason: product differentiation from the Corvette.
The other thing that’s nice about how the Camaro team did some of their product planning? You get the 1LE Track Package, and GM picks your transmission for you. 6MT or GTFAC. At least they are making the right moves to be considered serious (like including all the fluid coolers on 1LE models, rather than Ford’s move of saying “we recommend you get some extra coolers for fluids if you want to track this GT350").
|
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> average user
01/02/2018 at 12:07 |
|
So just do what you do with a box truck. Slowly inch backwards until you make contact, then pull slightly forward.
I’m in my 30s, so I learned to drive in the era before cameras, stability control, or computer controlled door locks.
|
LJ909
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
01/02/2018 at 12:08 |
|
Hopefully stuff like your doors and this rear window are covered under warranty. But still, it can be embarrassing and annoying to deal with.
I count both of them as 2+2's as well, but my son said he would rather sit in the back of my Mustang than my sis Camaro. It just seems tighter and not as easy to deal with on a daily basis. But they are muscle cars and thats the price you pay.
I totally agree with you on the product planning. If I ever traded up to a GT30 from my EB I would be annoyed just off of the cooling part instead of them going the GM route and giving it to you from the factory. There has to be some kind of cooling that you can order from Ford Performance, but still the fact that its not on the car already irks me.
|
average user
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
01/02/2018 at 12:13 |
|
I am in my 30s too, and believe me the latter two things exist when i got my first auto.
|
bob and john
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 12:18 |
|
I never use steering wheel controls other then volume up/down. so meh.
|
Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 12:49 |
|
That’s always the worst type of convertible owner lol. Thankfully I park my Miata indoors at night so I literally NEVER put the top up. I think I have put it up twice since moving here to California a month and a half ago. It just doesnt make sense to pay the premium for the car unless you actually put the top down more than 75% of the time you drive it. I do think its funny though that I actually see more convertibles with the top up here in Socal than I ever did in NJ.
|
LJ909
> Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
01/02/2018 at 13:17 |
|
It really bugs me the people that live here and never put their tops down. I see some people that live near me with convertibles that I never see down. Its like they spent extra money for the occasional ability to put their top down.
|
Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 14:11 |
|
I understand it when its 110 degrees out but 99% of the time that is not the case in LA. Or at night. That is the two times I have put the top up, driving at night. Now that I have my STi I just dont drive the Miata at night if I would want the top up. During the day, it never gets cold here so it makes no sense. I think people are just panzies.
|
LJ909
> Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
01/02/2018 at 14:12 |
|
I routinely have my top down at night. Its great. If its cold and I have some light heat on and the windows up its ok.
|
Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 14:19 |
|
Oh yeah for sure, I love having some moonlight and the nice cool breeze. It only sucks if its sub 50 degrees and you are just driving on the highway at 80+. This is especially true for passengers like my girlfriend who dont understand/appreciate the thrill lol. Around town though I love just taking a ride around with the top down at night.
LiterallyStuckIn1987
> LJ909
01/02/2018 at 14:37 |
|
335 horses???
The top ‘87 Camaro only gets 225 horses, and that’s from a 5.7 V8!
|
LJ909
> LiterallyStuckIn1987
01/02/2018 at 14:53 |
|
Exactly. Its why I said before that the V6 pony cars are nothing to scoff at now. Of course everyone would rather have a V8. But the V6's and 4's in these cars better the even the V8 powered versions of yesterday in both power and fuel economy. Even as recently as 03 before the F body went out of production, a regular V6 Camaro with the 3.8 still only had 200 horses from its V6.